Do Cross references exsist?

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nanodaniel
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Hey I was wondering, is there any way to have cross references in e-Sword? It's a crucial tool for studying the Bible. Thanks in advance.
Blessings in CHRIST,
Daniel

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Doctordavet
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Re: Do Cross references exsist?

Hey, Nanodaniel,

e-Sword has a great cross reference tool. It is only available for version 9, and it is called "Treasury of Scripture Knowledge."

Go HERE and scroll down to "Treasury of Scripture Knowledge" and click the down arrow.

Dave

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TaSwavo
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Re: Do Cross references exsist?

Has to be said, the TSK is not as good as it should be. It seems that 99% of NT references are in the NT. It is not always reciprocal (meaning verse A links to verse B but B will not necessarily link to A).

Doctordavet
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Re: Do Cross references exsist?

TaSwavo,

The TSK has gone through an extensive Revision and expansion. (Amazon.com has the book for sale HERE.) However, the updated version is not public domain - and therefore, not available to be distributed as an e-Sword module.

In the mean time, the public domain version of TSK is the best alternative we have (in my experience, limited as that may be) for cross references on e-Sword.

Do you know of a public domain resource one of us could convert into an e-S module that you feel is better than TSK?

Dave

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bible.study.software
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Re: Do Cross references exsist?

Doctordavet wrote:

Do you know of a public domain resource one of us could convert into an e-S module that you feel is better than TSK?

http://www.logos.com/media/bibletech/locating_NT_cross_references.mp3
is an excellent guide to constructing cross-references.

I've got a Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic/Latin/English concordance, but, due to copyright issues, I don't think it can be legally redistributed.(My source texts apparently were correctly licensed, and were not public domain.)

jonathon

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nanodaniel
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Re: Do Cross references exsist?

Thanks so much guys! I tried it out and it's great. "The LORD hear thee in the day of trouble; the name of the God of Jacob defend thee; Send thee help from the sanctuary, and strengthen thee..." (Psa 20:1-2a) GOD bless you all!!!

TaSwavo
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Re: Do Cross references exsist?

Thanks very much for the info. Unfortunately the price is a little high for my current budget :(

We can but hope that sooner or later they will share it with the world :) One never knows.

The original TSK and the eSword search features are pretty sweet as it is. I wasn't trying to diminish them, only pointing out the limits of the TSK. It's great but not perfect. Perhaps the new one is even better.

See, now you've gone and made me guilty of the sin of coveting the new TSK ;)

Thanks again, Doctordavet.

***EDIT***
OK Amazon had only one expensive option but I found another at less than half the price - so I've ordered it :) Much though I love eSword, I love the feel and 'atmosphere' of a good book. Old fashioned of me I know but that's the way it is...

Doctordavet wrote:
TaSwavo,

The TSK has gone through an extensive Revision and expansion. (Amazon.com has the book for sale HERE.) However, the updated version is not public domain - and therefore, not available to be distributed as an e-Sword module.

In the mean time, the public domain version of TSK is the best alternative we have (in my experience, limited as that may be) for cross references on e-Sword.

Do you know of a public domain resource one of us could convert into an e-S module that you feel is better than TSK?

Dave

carpenter
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Re: Do Cross references exsist?

Did something happen to the copyright? I have it for version 8 (I think I've had it since v. 6 or something)

admin
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Re: Do Cross references exsist?

carpenter wrote:
Did something happen to the copyright?

 
The TSK for e-Sword is, allegedly, based on the edition that is in the public domain.
The TSK that Amazon sells is a revised edition, that contains more cross-references, amongst other things.  AFAIK,  permission to  distirbute the revised edition  as  an e-Sword resource  has not been obtained.
 
jonathon

TaSwavo
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Re: Do Cross references exsist?

The "Treasury of Scripture Knowledge" is public domain. That is the one that is freely downloadable on the eSword 'extras' page.

The "New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge" is, as the name suggests, an upgraded version and is protected by copyright.

Both are available on Amazon and other places.

carpenter
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Re: Do Cross references exsist?

jonathon wrote:
carpenter wrote:
Did something happen to the copyright?

 
The TSK for e-Sword is, allegedly, based on the edition that is in the public domain.
The TSK that Amazon sells is a revised edition, that contains more cross-references, amongst other things.  AFAIK,  permission to  distirbute the revised edition  as  an e-Sword resource  has not been obtained.
 
jonathon

But here's my question: Can I upload the v. 8 TSK? Or is it only distributible for v. 9?

Bookworm1711
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Re: Do Cross references exist?

I am the guilty party that upgraded, expanded, and corrected the original Treasury of Scripture Knowledge as it has been released in The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge is no longer available in book form from Thomas Nelson, the publisher. It can be purchased second hand on Amazon from time to time, sometimes for a rather premium price. It is still available in software format.

I wish I had been able to stock up on the printed copies myself--it went out of print without my knowledge, so I had no extra copies to make available even for friends or family.

I have since produced Nelson's Cross Reference Guide to the Bible, which is even more complete for cross references than my New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. It is still currently available in print, so far as I know, in a much handier volume and a strikingly improved format which makes it far easier to use the cross references.

I put a great amount of work in producing each of these volumes, as you might imagine. It took me 26 years of research to produce The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, and five years to type it up. It took about ten more years of study and research and over two years of further work on this computer to produce Nelson's Cross Reference Guide to the Bible.

I wish I were not such a slow learner. If I knew as much about computer programming as my two sons, I could go ahead and produce my own software! Just now I am struggling to try to teach myself the C# 2008 programming language.

If there were a way to produce a new work using e-Sword by my adding cross references as I discover them in my own study of Scripture from here on out to the "verse notes" or something like that in e-Sword (like I have added for the past many decades to the wide margins of my study Bibles), then if these were able to be transferred into a distributable e-Sword module for cross references, then there would be a source for more extra-good cross references for everyone to use.

Otherwise, there is likely to be very slim chance that the rights to what I have already done as published by Nelson will ever be released into public domain. It might even be difficult to get by my contract which forbids me to create a work which might be construed as competitive to the works I have already produced for publication.

But I am pleased that there are some here and elsewhere who appreciate the work I have done for either The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge or Nelson's Cross Reference Guide to the Bible. A number of pastors, one as recently as yesterday, have told me that these cross reference resources are the most essential Bible study tool they own. It helps them to study the Word as they teach and preach from Scripture Sunday by Sunday.

bible.study.software
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Re: Do Cross references exist?

Bookworm1711 wrote:

I wish I had been able to stock up on the printed copies myself--it went out of print without my knowledge, so I had no extra copies to make available even for friends or family.

If you still have your contract, examine it carefully. Or have an attorney that is familiar with both _current_ and _obsolete_ author contract practices and meanings examine it. There is a possibility that the copyright has already reverted to you.

>Just now I am struggling to try to teach myself the C# 2008 programming language.

Personally, I'd suggest learning Python, rather than C#. And write your code using Python, not C# --- that makes it easier to port to your new operating system, w hen you buy your next computer. (You can pretty much be guaranteed that the next computer you buy will be incompatible with all of your current software --- including those that you wrote yourself.)

> If there were a way to produce a new work using e-Sword by my adding cross references as I discover them in my own study of Scripture from here on out to the "verse notes" or something like that in e-Sword

Both _Text2DAO_ and _Module Editor_ enable you to edit e-Sword 8.x resources. In your instance, you'd be adding the cross reference to the verse, as you discovered it. For e-Sword 9.x resources, SQLite Browser offers that functionality. (Create a commentary file using BeST 2.x first. Even if it is only a dummy resource, that contains "replace with cross-references" for every verse.)

>The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge or Nelson's Cross Reference Guide to the Bible.

FYI, I've seen both of those as e-Sword resources.

jonathon

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saved38
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Re: Do Cross references exsist?

Thank the Lord for TSK! It's probably the best cross reference tool ever.

TaSwavo
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Re: Do Cross references exsist?

Well the New TSK is even better.
But I would point out that these are by no means exhaustive.

I recently was tasked with finding Old Testament connections with the first 20 or so verses of Matthew 5. I found, in the Psalms particularly, a dozen extra cross references over and above the New TSK. Use these as a starting place, but using the search facility of eSword can add even more links.

Bookworm1711
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Re: Do Cross references exist?

Since I am the one who collected and compiled the cross references in The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, and more recently, Nelson's Cross Reference Guide to the Bible, I'll be the first to say that as complete as my cross references are, I could readily furnish more.

I continue to add significant cross references in my own hard copy as I do further study.

The limitation has been more or less set by the publisher. Since the book is already very large, more content is frowned upon.

I have kept a file on my computer here for an "expanded Treasury" where I have added many more references than are given in the published version, though I have not updated those files for some time.

Some complain that there are too many cross references provided already. Supposedly this scares away would-be users.

Personally, I believe the opposite is true. Those who are really searching the Scriptures appreciate all the help they can get. I know I do!

Rick Bowden
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Re: Do Cross references exist?

I for one would like as many cross references as there are..I don't think there can be too many. Is there a way that your extra cross references can be made available? How about copy and paste from your notes so that we could possibly copy them and paste them into our notes?
God Bless
Rick

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Re: Do Cross references exist?

Rick Bowden wrote:
Is there a way that your extra cross references can be made available?

Would you like a resource with 1 000 000 cross-references in it? That is roughly 20 cross-references per verse?

jonathon

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Rick Bowden
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Re: Do Cross references exist?

Jonathan..I sure would..I would appreciate any thing ..Thank you and may God bless your endeavors
Your Brother
Rick

Bookworm1711
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Re: Do Cross references exist?

Me too!

Jonathan, I'd love to have such a resource myself.

I would also love to learn how to create such a resource from my material here that would work on e-Sword.

But perhaps the resource you allude to already does.

DSaw
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Re: Do Cross references exist?

Hi Bookworm1711
 
How is your files set up By verse or by word
If by verse a cmtx or topx would work best
If by word a dictionary would work best
 
God Bless and Keep You
 
David

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David

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Bookworm1711
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Re: Do Cross references exist?

I have each verse typed in a MSWord document in a format just like a Bible. If you've seen the printed New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, or have that book on your computer from Logos or from Nelson's e-Bible software, what you see is what I typed (except for the formatting of some of the symbols in the New Treasury).

You can tell I am new at this. I don't know anything about "cmtx" or "topx."

I have a bad habit of not being very adventurous when it comes to computer stuff, but I'm hoping to overcome that and learn more, but where to learn it from I have no idea.

Any easy to follow suggestions or directions are welcome.

DSaw
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Re: Do Cross references exist?

Can You post a verse from your MSWord file
 
I looked at it in logos and a cmtx file would be best and can be made with BeST look at the top of this page i the blue bar chose BeST then How to's text Importing
Best is to try a couple chapters first then go from there
anyone disagree!!
 
David

The same thing said a different way sparks the understanding

David

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Bookworm1711
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Re: Do Cross references exsist?

Here is Romans 15:7 as I have it in my own file here, "copy and pasted" here:

7. receive. Ro 12:10, 13. 14:1-3. 16:2. Ps 119:74. Ml +3:16. Mt 10:14, 15, 40-42. 18:5. 25:35, 40, 43, 45, 46. Mk 6:11. 9:37-41. Lk 9:5, 48. 10:8, 10, 38, 39. Jn 13:20, 34. Ac 9:26-28, 43. 11:25, 26. 16:15. 17:7. 2 C +6:9. 7:2, 15. Ga 6:1. Ph 2:29. Col 4:10. Phm 12, 17. He 13:1, 2. 1 P +4:9, 10. 1 J 3:14. 2 J 10. 3 J 8-10. one another. Ro +12:5. as Christ. Ro 5:2. Mt +11:28-30. Lk 9:11. 15:2. Jn 1:38, 39. 6:37. 13:34. He 2:11. 11:16. to the glory. ver. 9. Ro +3:23. Ep 1:6-8, 12, 18. Ph 2:11. 2 Th 1:10-12.

I see that formatting is not preserved. The key words in my original are in boldface.

There is only one symbol that needs explaining. I use the "+" sign to mean "find more here" on the same or a related topic or subject.

Note that for the key word "receive" the original Treasury of Scripture Knowledge gives these references:

7. receive. ch. 14:1-3. Mat. 10:40. Mar. 9:37. Lu. 9:48.

The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge provides these references:

7. receive. Ro 12:10. *14:1-3. Mi +*3:16. Mt *10:40. 25:40. Mk *9:37-41. Lk *9:48. 10:38, 39. Jn 13:34. Ac *9:26-28. *11:25, 26. *16:15. 17:7. 2 C +*6:9. Ga 6:1, 2. He 13:1, 2. 1 P +*4:9, 10. 1 J 3:14. 2 J %10. 3 J %9, 10.

+ means find more here
* means a very clear verse
% means contrast

Notice that the original Treasury of Scripture Knowledge gave four references for the key word "receive" at Romans 15:7.

The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge gives 20 references.

Nelson's Cross Reference Guide to the Bible gives 40 references.

I count Ac 11:25, 26 as one reference because the verses are contiguous.

I count Ro 12:10, 13 as two references because the verses are not contiguous.

I count Lk 10:8, 10, 38, 39 as three references because there are three sets of non-contiguous references.

Romans 15:7 is probably the only place where I furnished so many additional references, but I have a written record which confirms that I added at least 200 additional very important references at some very crucial places as a result of my further study of Scripture. I have an additional uncounted number, at least 100, which were added during the proofreading stage to Nelson's Cross Reference Guide to the Bible.

I believe you would be greatly blessed, encouraged, and instructed anew by your study of the full set of 40 cross references now given for "receive" at Romans 15:7 listed first above. This is a most important topic. By repeated personal experience I know the importance of this command and what it is like when the command is not followed. I believe some churches and fellowships fail to reach others for Christ as effectively as they might otherwise because they fail to follow this admonition to "receive one another." Barnabas in Acts is one of the best examples of this gift in action. I call it the Barnabas factor. Barnabas was greatly used of the Lord at the start of the Church in Acts to reach others for Christ, and as an encouragement to the Apostle Paul. We need this today. But I better be careful lest I get to preaching!

Bookworm1711
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Re: Do Cross references exsist?

2/18/10 Sample from Romans 15:7

Here is Romans 15:7 as I have it in my own file here, "copy and pasted" here:

7. receive. Ro 12:10, 13. 14:1-3. 16:2. Ps 119:74. Ml +3:16. Mt 10:14, 15, 40-42. 18:5. 25:35, 40, 43, 45, 46. Mk 6:11. 9:37-41. Lk 9:5, 48. 10:8, 10, 38, 39. Jn 13:20, 34. Ac 9:26-28, 43. 11:25, 26. 16:15. 17:7. 2 C +6:9. 7:2, 15. Ga 6:1. Ph 2:29. Col 4:10. Phm 12, 17. He 13:1, 2. 1 P +4:9, 10. 1 J 3:14. 2 J 10. 3 J 8-10. one another. Ro +12:5. as Christ. Ro 5:2. Mt +11:28-30. Lk 9:11. 15:2. Jn 1:38, 39. 6:37. 13:34. He 2:11. 11:16. to the glory. ver. 9. Ro +3:23. Ep 1:6-8, 12, 18. Ph 2:11. 2 Th 1:10-12.

I see that formatting is not preserved. The key words in my original are in boldface.

There is only one symbol that needs explaining. I use the "+" sign to mean "find more here" on the same or a related topic or subject.

Note that for the key word "receive" the original Treasury of Scripture Knowledge gives these references:

7. receive. ch. 14:1-3. Mat. 10:40. Mar. 9:37. Lu. 9:48.

The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge provides these references:

7. receive. Ro 12:10. *14:1-3. Mi +*3:16. Mt *10:40. 25:40. Mk *9:37-41. Lk *9:48. 10:38, 39. Jn 13:34. Ac *9:26-28. *11:25, 26. *16:15. 17:7. 2 C +*6:9. Ga 6:1, 2. He 13:1, 2. 1 P +*4:9, 10. 1 J 3:14. 2 J %10. 3 J %9, 10.

+ means find more here
* means a very clear verse
% means contrast

Notice that the original Treasury of Scripture Knowledge gave four references for the key word "receive" at Romans 15:7.

The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge gives 20 references.
Nelson's Cross Reference Guide to the Bible gives 40 references.

I count Ac 11:25, 26 as one reference because the verses are contiguous.

I count Ro 12:10, 13 as two references because the verses are not contiguous.

I count Lk 10:8, 10, 38, 39 as three references because there are three sets of non-contiguous references.

Romans 15:7 is probably the only place where I furnished so many additional references, but I have a written record which confirms that I added at least 200 additional very important references at some very crucial places as a result of my further study of Scripture. I have an additional uncounted number, at least 100, which were added during the proofreading stage to Nelson's Cross Reference Guide to the Bible.

I believe you would be greatly blessed, encouraged, and instructed anew by your study of the full set of 40 cross references now given for "receive" at Romans 15:7 listed first above. This is a most important topic. By repeated personal experience I know the importance of this command and what it is like when the command is not followed. I believe some churches and fellowships fail to reach others for Christ as effectively as they might otherwise because they fail to follow this admonition to "receive one another." Barnabas in Acts is one of the best examples of this gift in action. I call it the Barnabas factor. Barnabas was greatly used of the Lord at the start of the Church in Acts to reach others for Christ, and as an encouragement to the Apostle Paul. We need this today. But I better be careful lest I get to preaching!

[My computer "crashed" twice while attempting to post this comment. The first time I lost all my work. The second time I had saved it in a separate MSWord file before posting. I don't see that post, so here it is again. Please forgive if this results in a double post. When I came back to this site after my second try, this post was not on this website. It looks like it is here twice now.]

DSaw
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Re: Do Cross references exsist?

I took the Romans 15:7 text you gave and turned it into a cmtx
 
the link to the cmtx is in the message I sent you look at the top of the screen
I could not get Best to work so I used med another module creator and converted it
put the cmtx file in program files /e-Sword go to Romans 15:7 in a bible then look at commentary for test it should have an i beside it click it

The same thing said a different way sparks the understanding

David

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ben.krueger
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Re: Do Cross references exsist?

Couldn't get BeST to work, or couldn't get it to work with the file you were using?

In His Name,
Ben.

DSaw
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Re: Do Cross references exsist?

yes it was the file sorry!

The same thing said a different way sparks the understanding

David

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daniel1212
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Re: Do Cross references exsist?

I am brand new here, and certainly not at the level of most, but cross references embedded in the Bible text is one thing i would like to see in E-Sword. Your "competition" has it, that being TheWord (http://theword.gr) However, it does not copy the crosssrefs when copying a range of chapters, so you must copy each chapter individually if you want them. I would like to make a web Bible using these, with the RefTagger so that a mouse over provides an inline popup of the crossref. This is a prototype here: http://www.peacebyjesus.com/Exo.BJ.html (best under Firefox).

Bookworm1711
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Re: Do Cross references exist?

1. That. Mat_+16:28. taste. Luk_2:26. Joh_8:51-52. Heb_2:9. the kingdom. Mar_9:47. Mar_+1:15. Mat_+24:30. Mat_25:31. Luk_22:18. Luk_22:30. Joh_21:23. Act_1:6-7.

These are the cross references from Mark 9:1.

I went into my e-Sword program and it happened to be opened to Mark 9. I "copy and pasted" my collection of cross references for Mark 9:1 and pasted them into the "Study Notes" for that verse. Then I used the "Format Scripture Tooltip" (also "Control + J") so the text of each reference could be brought into view by hovering the mouse pointer over the reference.

It took me considerable time to re-format some references like Jn 8:51, 52 to Jn 8:51-52 in order to get the tool tip to work. The reference to Luke 22:18, 30 had to be retyped to Lk 22:18 and Lk 22:30 (which then was converted to Luk 22:18. Luk 22:30).

The tool tip formatter needs to be improved so that it will recognize non-contiguous references like Lk 22:18, 30 as well as contiguous ones in the style Jn 8:51, 52.

Cross references preceded by the all-important "+" symbol won't work with the "tool tip" feature.

This process is too tedious. There must be a more efficient way to do this swiftly and globally. Working on every reference for every verse would be like doing this mammoth project all over yet again.

I notice that the tool tip feature will generally convert my Bible book abbreviations to its preferred abbreviation automatically, but I would prefer keeping my present abbreviations since they are shorter and clearer, once you know them.

Some abbreviations seem not to be recognized at all, like "Jn" for John. I am sure there are many more that won't directly convert this way.

Who knows how to do this (as, create a working e-Sword module which would contain all the references I have collected, and would permit my adding new references as I find them in my own Bible study) who can explain it so I can follow the directions?

BH
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Re: Do Cross references exist?

The all important "+", does it make a different if it is at the beginning or end of a reference instead of the middle? 
Matthew +16:28
+Matthew 16:38
Matthes 16:28+
?